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Differentieel vervangen : Techniek

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Differentieel vervangen

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Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » di dec 27, 2016 7:38 pm

Ik ben van plan om mijn originele 250D differentieel te vervangen voor een 300TDT differentieel met overbrengsverhouding 2.65.

Hiervoor heb ik al de juiste aandrijfassen naar de wielen, maar ik zit nu nog wel met een probleempje omtrent de aandrijfas/cardanas welke tussen het diff en de handbak zit. Deze paste namelijk niet op de originele handbak (van de 250D, de aansluitflensen zijn te klein) dus nu had ik een andere handbak (van een 250tdt/zelfde als 260E) welke een grotere flensaansluiting had. bijbehorend heb ik de aandrijfas erbij gescoord en deze past wel op de bak maar niet op de ingaande as van het 2.65 diff! die flens is namelijk nog groter.

Dik balen, ik dacht dat er namelijk maar 2 verschillende groottes waren omtrent aandrijflijn flensen. Ik ben van plan om de flens (welke op de pignon as zit) maar te wisselen van het originele differentieel maar ik lees links en rechts dat het behoorlijk precies komt met het aandraaien van de borgmoer. Als deze te strak wordt aangedraaid zal het diff kapot gaan hoor ik.

Ook ben ik benieuwd welke dop er nou precies op de borgmoer van het diff waar de flens mee vast zit moet. ik lees op W201 fora dat dit een 27 mm is maar het lijkt mij meer een 30mm 12 kants verlengde dop. Deze heb ik (nog) niet in huis helaas.

Wie heeft hier ervaring mee of heeft wijze raad voor de te ondernemen stappen?
Wouter61636
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor MB280E » di dec 27, 2016 8:20 pm

De flens van het differentieel vervangen zou ik zelf NIET doen.

Zou eerder nazien of je van 2 aandrijfassen geen 1 aandrijfas kan maken. (Voorste stuk van uw wagen, achterste stuk van de 300TDT). Eventueel laten balanceren.
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Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » di dec 27, 2016 8:28 pm

Dat zou inderdaad een perfecte oplossing wezen, passen deze wel gewoon in elkaar dan? Zal me niks verbazen als hier ook weer een verschillende maat voor is :pinch:

Ik hoor graag als iemand er nog zo eentje heeft liggen!
Wouter61636
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor MB280E » di dec 27, 2016 8:41 pm

Het kan zijn dat ze in elkaar passen, alleen dat zou je dit moeten nazien. Lees net dat je een 300TDT blok heb gemonteerd in je 250D. Dan is het wel aangeraden om met de groter hardy schijven te werken ivm het koppel.
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Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor GekkeHenkie » di dec 27, 2016 11:34 pm

flens van het diff vervangen is te doen, mits je de goede dop hebt.

van 2 aandrijfassen 1 maken is andere koek, je zult het geheel moeten laten balanceren
GekkeHenkie
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Ostwelt Customs » wo dec 28, 2016 11:49 am

Das een bekend probleem...
Mijn " Joop" een W124 met OM605 bleek miserie te hebben aan de hardyschijven. Een gerecyclede bout had tevens 1 boutgat van de tussen-as volledig uitgewoond. hierdoor moest ik op zoek gaan naar een vervanger hiervoor
Nu heb ik nog een S124 OM602 er naast staan... maar van alles dat daar onder hangt past er helemaal niets.

De dikkere tussen-as met grotere flens is ook nog eens anders van lengte. Ik begrijp uit de omschrijving dat je al een diff hebt met de dikkere steekassen... Dit blijkt dus een lastige keuze. Om de overbrenging te wijzigen is het nu misschien nog niet te laat om uit te kijken naar een (ouder) exemplaar met de kleinere aansluiting in de gewenste overbrengingsverhouding... Pas op ... De tussenas mixen gaat ook niet... Zelfs de spiebanen kennen een andere diameter waardoor ook een " gewoon" tussenaslager niet past.

Met Joop is het goed gekomen... Ik heb vanaf de bak zowel de tussenas vervangen als het subframe met diff... Dankzij Onderdelen-ster Maikel heb ik niet mijn hele spaarpot hoeven plunderen.

Of je iets hebt aan het verhaal weet ik niet. Misschien brengt het je sneller tot een oplossing.
Ostwelt Customs
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Sierra300dmotor » wo dec 28, 2016 2:41 pm

beste,

ik heb een W210 motor met handbak van mijn eigen W124 in m`n W124 gehangen.
tevens heb ik het diff van de W210 in de W124 gemonteerd tevens alle rubbers vervangen.
ik heb het op deze manier opgelost... komplete cardan van W124 (deze is ook dunner) echter de flens van W210 diff is groter
deze kun je niet overzetten bout van de flens zit namelijk ook verschil in!
ik heb de achterste flens van de W124 cardan afgeslepen en ook van de W210 cardan deze heb ik op de W124 cardan gelast! en pijp overheen gezet, alleen nog laten balanceren.
dus heb nu ook 2 verschillende hardyschijven eronder haha wel effe in de gaten houden bij vervangen.
voorste hardy is kleiner dan de achterste maar ja verder is dat geen probleem.

gr
Sierra300dmotor
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » wo dec 28, 2016 8:46 pm

Bedankt voor al deze verhalen!

Vandaag op pad gegaan met de 300D tussenas en erachtergekomen dat de spiebanen die beide delen van de tussenas verbinden inderdaad niet uitwisselbaar zijn met de tussenas van een 300TDT(4matic). Deze dikkere as van de 300 TDT paste wel op mijn 2.65 diff....

Ik twijfel nog over om de flens van het kleine dif gewoon over te zetten op het grote diff of gewoon de lippen op de flens van het grote diff af te slijpen en nieuwe ogen op te zetten zodat ze wel passen op de kleinere tussenas. Voor nog geen twee tientjes heb je zo'n dop voor het overzetten, maar alle verhalen over het opnieuw afstellen van de flensmoer en spanning op het kroonwiel op het internet schrikkken me toch een beetje af.

Is dat opnieuw balanceren van zo'n as duur/echt noodzakelijk?
Wouter61636
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor MB280E » wo dec 28, 2016 11:51 pm

Gaten in de flens boren is ook geen oplossing.

En moet dit differentieel van de 300TDT echt onder de wagen?
Heb de indruk dat die heel grote hardy schijven enkel gebruikt zijn bij de 300TDT

Waarom geen diff nemen van een E300D (multiklepper) automaat 3.07
Aandrijfas en 5- bak van de E300D.
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Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » do dec 29, 2016 5:22 pm

De flens afflexen en nieuwe ogen oplassen gaat niet lukken zeg je? Volgens mij gaat dat wel goed, alleen ik ben bang voor enige onbalans in de aandrijving.

Een 3.07 Differentieel blijft ook altijd een optie, scheelt wel een bult werk. Passen de huidige aandrijf Assen hier ook op of is dat afhankelijk van ASD/ lsd/ABS optie? Helaas zal ik deze vervolgens wel nog moeten aanschaffen en dan ligt dat 2.65 diff ook maar weer in de opslag... das wel zonde.

Heeft iemand een antwoord op de vraag of die flensmoer zonder te veel problemen is over te zetten?
Wouter61636
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Ostwelt Customs » do dec 29, 2016 6:13 pm

Misschien heb je [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
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differentials.pdf
(29.82 KiB) 310 keer gedownload
iets aan dit pdf-je....

Eerlijk gezegd durf ik de tussen-as nog niet eens te delen op de spiebanen als deze ongemarkeerd is.
Laat staan afslijpen en terug aan lassen.

Ik hoop dus dat je iets aan bovenstaand datasheet hebt om tot een juiste keuze te komen.
Ostwelt Customs
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Gombal » do dec 29, 2016 8:12 pm

Cardan as kun je straffeloos uit elkaar halen bij de spiebanen, zit standaard een markering op beide helften.
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Type wagen: Ander type
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Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor MB280E » vr dec 30, 2016 12:31 am

Mijn mening over de flensmoer is eenvoudig:
Niet doen. Zonder de kennis en het juiste gereedschap kan je deze nooit op de juiste spanning vastzetten.
De voorspanning van het lager klopt dan niet meer en uw nieuw differentieel loopt kapot. Indien u beschikt over het juiste gereedschap zal dit wel te doen zijn.

Leesvoer:
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%2 ... -0550C.pdf
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%2 ... ension.htm

Oja heb in mijn vorig leven (of vorige job) ooit eens een differentieel van een vorkheftruck gereviseerd.
(Is gelijkaardig aan dat van een wagen, is tijdrovend, vraagt speciaal gereedschap)
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MB280E
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Type wagen: 300TD Turbo
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Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Sierra300dmotor » vr dec 30, 2016 10:53 am

Sierra300dmotor
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Sierra300dmotor » vr dec 30, 2016 10:55 am

je kan ook de beide cardanassen brengen en laten samenvoegen, dan weet je zeker dat het goed is! kost ong 200euro incl. ik heb het bij mijn sierra ook laten doen omdat dit 2 verschillende cardans waren voorkant sierra achterkant W124.
bij mijn W124 heb ik het zelf gedaan omdat het toch alleen maar de flens was.
Sierra300dmotor
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » vr dec 30, 2016 7:37 pm

Bedankt voor de ervaringen, adviezen en tips! Ik denk dat de huidige beste oplossing voor mij blijft om gewoon van de 300D tussenas de 3 ogen van de flens af te slijpen en 3 iets langere op te lassen zodat hij even groot is met die van het 2.65 diff.

Hierdoor hoef ik enkel nog een grotere hardyschijf te kopen (die van de 210 mm asaansluiting op het diff) en mocht het niet lukken kan ik altijd nog terug naar de huidige opstelling met kleine diff en huidige aandrijf as (alles 250D origineel)

Verder nog geen ervaring gehoord over het vergroten van de flensaansluitingen, mij lijkt dit het onderdeel om het makkelijkst aan te passen omdat je hier minder snel met scheve lassen te maken hebt of onbalans in de as. De enige onbalans die ik kan bedenken bij mijn manier is dat er een gewichtsverschil in de opgelaste ogen zit, maar dit lijkt mij niet een significant probleem.

Ik hoor graag reacties!
Wouter61636
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Sierra300dmotor » vr dec 30, 2016 7:58 pm

Sierra300dmotor
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » vr dec 30, 2016 8:08 pm

Ik heb een vriend welke professioneel lasser is bij een machinebouwbedrijf. ik zal hem vragen of hetgeen wat ik in gedachten heb mogelijk is en/of zijn advies opvolgen en hem laten lassen!
Wouter61636
 


Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor MB280E » vr dec 30, 2016 9:04 pm

Wouter uw manier van aanpassen zou ik echt niet doen.
Beter de manier doen die Sierra aanhaalt. Dat is in mijn ogen een correct manier van werken.

De flens op de versnellingsbak kan je wel straffeloos vervangen.
Bij bepaalde W126 (420,500,560SE(L) en R107 (420,500,560SL) worden dezelfde hardy schijven en tussenaslager gebruikt als bij een 300TDT vermoed dat spievertanging hetzelfde zal zijn)
Misschien kan je hier eens kijken of er geen gepaste aandrijfas te vinden is.

Mag ik vragen wat de lengte van een handgeschakelde versnellingsbak is?
Is die langer dan die van een automaat? Anders is het laten inkorten en balanceren van de originele 300TDT aandrijfas de oplossing.

VEEL SUCCES :handgestures-thumbup:
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Re: Differentieel vervangen

Berichtdoor Wouter61636 » ma jan 02, 2017 3:48 pm

Ik zal deze week eens kijken, maar ik meende dat de lengte van de versnellingsbakken voor een handgeschakelde en automaat hetzelfde waren.

Voor de absolute zekerheid heb ik een foto gemaakt van de bout die ik bedoel. Is deze écht niet straffeloos los te maken en daarna de flens te wisselen? Ik kan het me bijna niet voorstellen namelijk!

de aandrijfas van de 300TDT die ik weet te liggen is er eentje van een 4matic, die hebben een andere aansluiting op de versnellingsbak (met 4 bouten) dan ik heb (3 bouten)
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