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Verstuivers afpersen : Techniek - 3

W124Club.nl

Alles over de Mercedes W124

Het is nu do maart 28, 2024 9:27 am

Verstuivers afpersen

Alle techniek (mechanisch, elektronisch) zaken horen hier thuis.

Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor -SK- » do aug 16, 2018 10:09 am

Duidelijk verhaal.
Manometer 63mm heeft een 1/4" onderaansluiting, en manometer 100mm een 1/2" onderaansluiting.

Als de verstuivertester een 1/2" onderaansluiting heeft, dan moet ik sowieso de 100mm hebben.
Kan je bevestigen dat de verstuivertester een 1/2" onderaansluiting heeft?



PS Die shop in Rotterdam (staat niet op MP momenteel) kan ik niet vinden voor manometers.
Bij technoplaza.nl hebben ze ze ook, glycerine gevuld met het rubberen dopje aan de bovenzijde en RVS kast, van Italiaanse fabrikaat werd mij net verteld. Dat lijkt me een prima alternatief.
-SK-
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » do aug 16, 2018 5:41 pm

Moest bij mij zelf half duims gasdraad in de moer tappen, eerst iets opgeboord. Originele manometer had bij mij geen gasdraad maar een ander soort. Zal bij elke uitvoering wel anders zijn schat ik, afhankelijk van merk.
Waar de manometer vandaan komt maakt niet uit, zolang hij gevuld is is het goed, dan kun je hem afstellen zodat de naald niet zo springt.
Laatst bijgewerkt door Gombal op vr aug 17, 2018 9:14 pm, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor -SK- » vr aug 17, 2018 10:25 am

Oei, ik dacht dat ik er al was. :confusion-confused:
Het kan dus voorkomen dat de tester nieuwe schroefdraad nodig heeft om de nieuwe manometer te laten passen.

Voor het geval dat het nodig is, zou jij / een andere forumer dan willen helpen met het aanpassen van de tester/manometer? Verschillende soorten schroefdraad heb ik geen verstand van (bij onderstaande manometer wordt BSP aangegeven), ik weet niet of het past of passend te maken is.

Ik sta 'in de startblokken' om te bestellen, maar ben nu niet zeker het juiste te doen (voor degene die er wel verstand van heeft vast erg simpel, maar ik zie het even niet meer wat nu de juiste beslissing is om te bestellen).

en deze

of toch beter of van amazon i.c.m. deze

:think:
-SK-
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » za aug 18, 2018 9:08 am

Als ik de spullen had zou ik je graag willen helpen maar heb de wartel toen meegenomen naar mijn werk, is een grote boor die je nodig hebt en ik had zelf ook geen half duims gasdraad tappen.
Gelukkig iemand van de technische dienst wel. Maar alleen al voor het boren kon ik dat thuis niet.
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor -SK- » ma sep 10, 2018 4:27 pm

Het is geworden een 600 bar verstuivertester met verloopnippel 3/8 naar 1/4 met manometer 1/4 250bar 63mm.

Niet exact hoe ik het wilde, geen 100mm maar 63mm manometer, maar dit moet ook prima werken.
En de schaal is zodanig dat ieder streepje 5 bar verschil aangeeft. Dat werkt voor mij ook.

Nu moet na gebruik het apparaat gereinigd worden.
Zodat het intern niet gaat verkleven, dat de pakkingen niet kapot gaan e.d.
Dat vind ik belangrijk, aangezien het wel jaren kan duren voordat ik het apparaat weer zou gaan gebruiken.

Welke reinigingsvloeistof gebruiken jullie? / waar te koop?
Kan je zoiets pakken als reinigingsvloeistof wat ze gebruiken voor ultrasoon reinigen?
-SK-
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » ma sep 10, 2018 5:21 pm

Pomp hem altijd leeg nadat ik het reservoir leeggegoten heb en voor de rest doe ik niets. Ga er van uit dat alles wat erin zit tegen diesel kan. Ik sluit wel het reservoir af en wat plastic om de verstuiverleiding zodat het schoon blijft.
(Wat je niet moet doen is zonnebloemolie gebruiken en dan vooral niet naspoelen met diesel oid. Zonnebloemolie is na 6 maanden gewoon net bijna opgedroogde bisonkit en dan heb je wel even werk voordat alles weer schoon is en werkt.......vraag niet hoe ik dat weet :roll: )
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor -SK- » ma sep 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Bedankt Gombal.

Je gebruikt dus gewone diesel en daarna alleen leegpompen?

De leverancier vertelde me dat de pakkingen kunnen gaan verkleven van diesel en dat ik daarom met reinigingsvloeistof moet naspoelen. Wat precies, dat konden ze me niet zeggen.

Je merkt het al, ik weet nog niet veel van dit onderwerp
-SK-
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » ma sep 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Zou best kunnen dat ze gaan verkleven maar dan is het jammer dat hij wel zegt dat je moet spoelen maar niet weet met wat.
Jammere is dan ook dat je niet weet van welk rubber eventuele pakkingen e.d zijn, dat zou ook al helpen om een spoelmiddel te kiezen.
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor -SK- » ma sep 10, 2018 7:25 pm

Klopt, jammer dat ze dan je niet de juiste richting in kunnen sturen.
-SK-
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Rob Hackert » di sep 11, 2018 6:53 pm

mijn W124 250D heeft 355.000 km gelopen, Nederlandse auto van eerste eigenaar! loopt als een zonnetje en als ie stationair loopt is ie veel stiller dan modernere diesels.

mijn verbruik is 1 op 17 km op een lange rit en 1 op 13 met alleen korte ritjes.

toch vraag ik mij af of het niet verstandig is om nieuwe verstuivers te laten monteren gezien de km stand.

wat kosten die nieuw ?
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » wo sep 12, 2018 8:23 am

Als ik naar je verbruik kijk dan zou ik er niets aan doen, mijn 250D had toen zo ongeveer dezelfde waardes.
Je hebt ook geen hele nieuwe verstuivers nodig, het gaat om het binnenwerk als je toch je verstuivers wil doen.
Er zitten verschillende onderdelen in je verstuiver.
Wat je zowieso moet vervangen is de nozzle, dat is een metalen tonnetje met de naald erin. Dit is ook het onderdeel dat verslijt en je inspuitpatroon grotendeels bepaald, een pisstraaltje of netjes nevelen.
Een tussenschijf, źou ik altijd meteen mee vervangen, kost een paar losse euro en scheelt je lekkage als de oude wat vervuiling heeft.
Een klein tolletje welke tussen de veer en de naald zit, zelfde verhaal als de tussenschijf, niet voor lekkage maar kan ook verslijten en kost ook maar een grijpstuiver.
Veer zou kunnen maar is 9 van de 10 keer niets mis mee.
Een berg stelplaatjes om de druk in te stellen.
En natuurlijk nieuwe brandplaatjes, beschermen de verstuiver in de kop tegen de temperatuur van de verbranding.

Of compleet (met inleveren van je oude, anders zijn ze 35 euro duurder):
http://www.monopoel.de/catalog/mobile/k ... p-528.html
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor John.M » wo sep 12, 2018 8:36 am

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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Rob Hackert » wo sep 12, 2018 7:39 pm

ja, niks aan doen dan maar John.... je weet zelf hoe mooi mijn 250D loopt met maar liefst 355.000 km! maar ik dacht dat ie misschien nog zuiniger te krijgen was met nieuwe verstuivers.
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor John.M » wo sep 12, 2018 8:35 pm

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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor johnny5 » do nov 14, 2019 10:16 pm

ik weet ook niet hoe dat allemaal werkt ,ben goed in lassen ,maar het motor gedeelte van een diesel gaat so gauw het over druk en inspuitmomenten boven mijn pet
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor the swede » vr nov 15, 2019 8:43 am

Ik moet hier toch enkele basisvragen stellen want ben even de tel kwijt:

1. Wat is de normale druk voor injectoren in een 300D of 250D bvb?
2. Kan je die verhogen? Of injectoren steken met een hogere inspuitdruk??
3. Wat zijn de voordelen?

Met dank
Ik moet hoogdringend het aantal wagens beginnen verminderen.
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » vr nov 15, 2019 9:18 am

Normale druk staat op de zijkant van je verstuivers, 115 bar voor atmosferische motoren, 135 bar voor turbomotoren.
Die drukken kun je zelf veranderen dmv de stelplaatjes in de verstuiver.(als je een verstuiver tester hebt en stelplaatjes)

De derde vraag had en heb ik ook met nog een extra vraag, hoeveel druk kunnen onze injectiepompen leveren zonder directe schade of schade na een wat langere tijd.
Ze kunnen zowieso hoger als de 135 bar maar er zal een mechanische grens aan zitten. Ben alleen benieuwd wat dat is, is dat al bij bijvoorbeeld 150 bar of pas bij 200 bar bijvoorbeeld.

Reden waarom ik mijn drukken hoger zou willen zetten is de volgende. Heb een Fordje TDCI gehad, simpel powerboxje er tussen en ik had ipv 68 ongeveer een pk of 80. Dat maakte me niet uit maar hij werd ook 2 km/ltr zuiniger bij dezelfde rijstijl.
Wat dat ding deed is simpelweg de computer voor de gek houden door te vertellen dat de inspuitdruk 100 of 200 bar lager was als in werkelijkheid dus werd die opgeschroefd. Dit resulteert niet in meer brandstof maar onder hogere druk ingespoten en dus fijner verneveld.

Vraag me dus af of als ik mijn verstuivers op 150 bar zet ik ook een verlaging van mijn verbruik oplevert.
Bij de Ford bleef de inspuittiming hetzelfde omdat dit electronisch geregeld werd.
Bij onze oude gebakjes zul je de inspuittiming echter zelf moeten verstellen want hogere druk betekent later open gaan van de verstuivers.

Grote vraag is echter hoeveel? Statisch moet de pomp op 15 graden na het bovenste dode punt wat een werkelijke inspuiting geeft ergens bij 24 graden voor het bovenste dode punt.

Zou dus fijn zijn om te weten hoeveel bar verhoging 1 graad statische vervroeging is.

Nou zijn er apparaten die net als bij een benzinemotor bij een stationair draaiende motor dmv een stroboscoop de daadwerkelijke timing kunnen laten zien.
Die zijn echter schreeuwend duur. Anders was het simpel, eerst de juiste timing achterhalen bij een perfect statisch afgestelde pomp met standaard op 115 bar gecheckte verstuivers, daarna verstuiver druk verhogen en weer meten en corrigeren.
Andere vraag is ook of het idd wat oplevert omdat dit indirect ingespoten atmosferische motoren zijn en de TDCI en andere common rail diesels direct ingespoten turbo motoren zijn. Vermoed dat het effect wel hetzelfde is maar minder groot.
Zit helaas wat ingewikkelder in elkaar als de timing van een ouderwetse benzinemotor.

( Nog 2 leuke documenten, zie net dat de pompen zowieso pieken tot 9000 PSI, zo'n 610 bar kunnen leveren.
1 document met tig manieren om je pomp timing in te stellen/controleren, andere korte beschrijving van de pomp zelf.)
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor fronteradriver » wo mei 13, 2020 5:06 pm

Dus als je de druk wilt verhogen, kan je dikkere stelplaatjes steken.

Als je de druk wilt verlagen, steek je dunnere stelplaatjes?

of omgekeerd?
W124 200D (1988)
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Gombal » wo mei 13, 2020 5:40 pm

Klopt, met dikkere plaatjes zet je meer voordruk op de veer en zal de verstuiver bij een hogere druk openen.
Bij dunnere idd andersom.

Belangrijkste is om schoon te werken en als je de volgorde niet weet de eerste verstuiver voorzichtig te openen en goed op de volgorde en manier van plaatsen van elk onderdeeltje te letten.
En anders even googlen, zo heb ik het ook geleerd ;) .
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Re: Verstuivers afpersen

Berichtdoor Merida » wo mei 13, 2020 8:36 pm

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