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230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start. : Techniek

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Het is nu do maart 28, 2024 4:09 pm

230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Alle techniek (mechanisch, elektronisch) zaken horen hier thuis.

230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » za sep 24, 2022 10:53 am

Beste forummers zoals de titel al aangeeft Start mijn 230E niet lekker.

Een paar maanden terug startte hij al niet lekker in het begin, zag toen dat
de slang van de carter ontluchting bij de aansluiting op de kleppendeksel losgeschoten
was dit was daarna nog een keer gebeurt. Nadat ik deze vastgezet had startte hij wel beter.
Nu heb ik ook de stappenmotor / IAVC / leerlaufregler schoongemaakt, ik had niet het idee
dat deze vervuild was aan de binnenzijde. Er kwam geen rommel uit nadat ik de boel lekker had laten
weken in de wd40.
De stappen motor er weer ingezet waarbij de slang aan de onderzijde ook goed aansluit.
Afgelopen woensdag heb ik er een nieuwe complete carter ontluchtingsslang opgezet, die ik bij de Benz
dealer voor 14 euro had besteld , ook het stukje naar de Koudstart injector.De oude was compleet verhard
na 36 jaar.
Daarmee is het niet opgelost, bij het starten van een koude motor slaat hij niet gelijk lekker aan. Schommelt
in de toeren en blijft na een poosje wel op 800 toeren draaien zoals het hoort.
Met warme motor doet dit probleem zich niet voor, de auto rijd op gas maar start op benzine.

Voor een duidelijke beeldvorming heb van het starten een filmpje van gemaakt met geluid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4aM-nIkTJ0
Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor hansjepansje » zo sep 25, 2022 1:32 pm

Dag Maurice,helaas nog geen reacties voor je probleem.Mijn vraag is hoelang moet je starten voor ie aanslaat,hoelang loopt ie dan slecht stationair? Slangen los duidt mischien op backfire ivm gas
hansjepansje
Senior Boarder
Senior Boarder
 
Berichten: 46
Geregistreerd: di dec 29, 2015 12:15 pm
Woonplaats: Tilburg
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230CE
Bouwjaar: 1988
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » zo sep 25, 2022 2:31 pm

Hoi Hansje Pansje

Dat dat slangetje wat nu vernieuwd is en los was geschoten lag aan de kwaliteit van de slang na 36 jaar. Er zat een klein scheurtje in op de plek waar hij met de slangenklem aan de kleppendeksel zit en verhard rubber.

Gister sloeg hij af na een keer starten 1 keer sleutel om, daarna bij de 2 de keer zoals je in het filmpje hoort blijft hij wel lopen.

Vanmorgen weer gestart met koude motor het portier staat open. Ik draai de sleutel 1 keer om zodra de benzine
pomp stopt met draaien. Nu startte de motor zonder uit te slaan.
Ik start hem motor slaat aan , maar draait eerste 30 seconden niet zo lekker zoals je kan horen.
Het gaspedaal raak ik niet aan.
Als de motor draait kan ik gewoon wegrijden, als ik dan terugkom start de warme motor gewoon goed
zodra ik de sleutel 1 keer omdraai.

Zo startte de Benz vanmorgen : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Jus8qrkDY
Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor hansjepansje » zo sep 25, 2022 3:23 pm

Zou eerst het brandstofpomprelais controleren ,zit achter accu naast ovp relais
Pootjes goed schoonmaken,even mee schudden ,als het rammelt is ie stuk
WAt bedoel je met slang naat koudstart injector? Is toch geen rubber? maar metalen leiding?
hansjepansje
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » zo sep 25, 2022 4:58 pm

Maurice.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor lwa250 » zo sep 25, 2022 7:53 pm

Ovp relais mogelijk de veroorzaker? Brandt ABS lampje of gaat dit op een later moment branden?
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » zo sep 25, 2022 8:09 pm

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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » ma sep 26, 2022 10:06 am

Dank voor je tip Richard die stekkertjes heb ik hier wel en anders even de juiste maat halen.

Over lekkende injectoren had ik al voor dit probleem iets gelezen, dan lekt er benzine op de zuiger(s) dan verzuipt hij een klein beetje dat verklaart mogelijk waarom de motor in het begin niet lekker loopt. En met warme motor of na een poosje draaien wel weer goed start.
Zo heb ik de auto gisteravond rond 7 uur koud gestart dat liep in het begin niet lekker , om een uur of 11 nogmaals en toen liep de motor vrijwel gelijk goed, de eerste 5-10 seconden niet.

De auto staat voor de deur, ik moet toch even wachten tot het droog is buiten.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » ma sep 26, 2022 1:11 pm

Zojuist heb ik de contacten 30 en 87 in de voet van de relais verbonden. Voordat ik dit deed heb ik wel eerst
een accupool losgemaakt. Zodra ik er spanning opzetten hoorde ik de benzine pomp lopen en heb deze precies 2 minuten laten draaien.
Daarna de motor met koude motor gestart die sloeg gelijk aan maar loopt niet lekker, het scheelt soms ook de ene keer op de andere keer starten. Laatste start was van gisteravond 23.00 uur het lijkt mij een logische beredenering als je de motor na 2 dagen pas weer start dat hij misschien met lekkende injector(en) er nog langer over doet om lekker te lopen.

Zo startte de auto nadat ik de doorverbind test had gedaan.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u5nmpQRjfms
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30 en 87 doorverbonden.jpeg
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Maurice.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » di sep 27, 2022 9:13 am

Richard : Dit valt toch niet onder een normale start zoals jij aangaf , start nog steeds niet lekker.
Wat is nu wijsheid de auto heeft 235.000 km gelopen vanaf 2011 bij een km stand van 163.000 rijd de auto op gas.
Kan er nieuwe Bosch injectors inzetten met rubbers dat kost ook de wereld niet, als dat het probleem is. Weet ook niet of dat ooit al eens is gebeurt zou zomaar kunnen dat de motor dan beter loopt.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » do sep 29, 2022 3:50 pm

Morgen komen de nieuwe Bosch injectors 4 stuks + rubbers en alvast vanmiddag de injectors losgehaald. Dat ging eigenlijk vrij vlot , draaide ze zo los met steeksleutel 14. Deze zijn waarschijnlijk nog nooit verwijderd en van staal, de rubbers zijn ook compleet verhard.
De zekeringen heb ik ook nog allemaal vervangen , zaten ook nog zekeringen tussen met lood verbinding.

Bougies van ngk+Bosch rotor en kap + kabels zijn afgelopen december al vervangen.

Zo zien injectors eruit nadat ze waarschijnlijk 36 jaar hun werk gedaan hebben.
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Oude injectors.jpeg
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Maurice.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » za okt 01, 2022 3:31 pm

Vanmiddag de bougies eruit gehaald wat ik toen zag baart mij wel een beetje zorgen
Kreeg van een vriend van mij het volgende te horen. :o :dry:

Water in de cilinder :( :(
Daarom misschien Slecht starten, een cilinder is de koppakking van lek en loopt er water op de cilinder en smoort de vonk

Kan dit dus gebeurt zijn naar aanleiding van dit grapje in mei:

overstort-koelvloeistof-vloog-open-t20062.html
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WhatsApp Image 2022-10-01 at 15.29.56 (1).jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2022-10-01 at 15.29.56 (1).jpeg (285.94 KiB) 1046 keer bekeken
Laatst bijgewerkt door Maurice. op za okt 01, 2022 3:55 pm, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.
Maurice.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » za okt 01, 2022 4:08 pm

Tot nu toen niet zo veel koelvloeistof verbruik wel vorige week een halve liter bijgevuld of iets minder, maar merk geen overmatig koelvloeistof verbruik. Motor net even laten lopen met koelvloeistof dop eraf zie geen belletjes verschijnen.

Wat zou het nog meer kunnen zijn behalve dit? Auto rijd op LPG

Oh ja de nieuwe injectors heb ik er nu wel in zitten dat was een simpel klusje.

Van 15 July tot 15 augustus heeft de auto binnen gestaan , terwijl ik 4 weken op vakantie was.
Na terugkomst startte de auto probleemloos.
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Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » zo okt 02, 2022 10:52 am

Goeiemorgen

Net de bougie van cililnder4 losgemaakt, toen met een vloeistofzuiger gekeken of deze vloeistof opzoog. Dit gebeurde niet en het zuigmondje was ook niet nat.
Gister nog een rondje gereden en de auto de laatste 6 km op benzine gezet en zo heb ik de auto ook net ook gestart.
De motor sloeg een keer af daarna pakte hij maar liep de motor niet gelijk lekker (dit bekeek ik met de motorkap open.) De motor liep maar schudde ook af en toe heen en weer dat zal dan wel 1 cilinder zijn die niet goed mee loopt. Naarmate ik de motor langer liet lopen des te stabieler begon hij te draaien
De verdeelkap ,rotor en kabels heb ik ook nagekeken dit was in orde. Zal morgen nieuwe bougies halen en die erin zetten.
Kreeg al een tip om het koelsysteem te laten afpersen om te zien of er een lek is. Er valt ook geen koelvloeistof op de motorbeschermplaat aan de onderzijde.
Was wel laat geworden gisteravond doordat ik mij aardig aan het inlezen ben op het forum en internet hoe je een koppakking moet vervangen... voor het geval dat aan de orde is :huh: Dit heb ik vroeger wel bij een opel D kadett gedaan met onderliggende nokken as.
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WhatsApp Image 2022-10-02 at 11.31.56.jpeg
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Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » za okt 15, 2022 11:54 am

Afgelopen 12 dagen even aangekeken of de auto beter wilde starten. Alleen afgelopen maandag nadat ik daarna 250 km gereden heb, startte de auto in een keer goed zonder in toeren te minderen en liep prima stationair zoals het hoort. (De bougies en injectoren waren toen al vervangen) De dagen daarna niet meer goed starten. Heb de auto ook nog gestart met de stekker van de koudstartinjector los , toen moest ik flink doorstarten en bij de 5 de keer de sleutel om sloeg de motor aan.
Druk mee bezig geweest wat het nu kon zijn, en nog steeds start hij niet goed :?

Er zitten nieuwe injectors en bougies in, nadat ik de bougies vervangen had liep de motor bij rijden wel beter. Deze had ik al eerder kunnen vervangen, rotor en verdelerkap, bougiekabels zijn ook goed.
De koudstart injector heb ik losgeschroefd en bekeken. contacten van de stekker nagezien en dit lijkt goed te zijn.
Ook andere stekkers bij het injectie systeem losgemaakt maar zag daar geen corrosie op.
Zoals al eerder gezegd als de motor loopt dan rijd hij gewoon fantastisch... alleen dat starten gaat niet soepel.
De motor verbruikt ook geen koelvloeistof !

Vandaag even gestart de motor viel tot 2 keer uit bij de 3 de keer werd hij wakker en liep stationair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXvrdnTdaXg zo startte de motor vanmorgen.


De bougie waar ik al eerder een foto van liet zien, daarvan kreeg ik bij een doe hetzelf garage te horen
dat de corrosie op de bougie waarschijnlijk door water/vocht is gekomen wat er van bovenaf ingelopen is
dat verklaart mischien ook waarom de bougie van cilinder 4 veel vaster zat dan de rest. Op de schroefdraad is dit goed te zien.

Lang verhaal probeer het zo duidelijk mogelijk uit te leggen, alvast dank voor de hulp/advies
Bijlagen
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Van links naar rechts clinder 4-3-2-1.jpeg
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WhatsApp Image 2022-10-12 at 13.41.06.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2022-10-12 at 13.41.06.jpeg (191.98 KiB) 863 keer bekeken
Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » zo okt 16, 2022 12:02 pm

De rode zekering van de ovp heb ik donderdag even uit de ovp gehaald en zag er nog goed uit.
Voor de zekerheid kan ik de brandstofrelais en de ovp nogmaals open maken en kijken
of de solderingen nog goed zijn. Dit heb ik eerder afgelopen december al gedaan, maar ik kan er niet
vanuit gaan dat het nog in orde is.
De luchtmassa meter is dat zwarte langwerpige onderdeel wat aan de zijkant van de Ke jetronic gemonteerd is
met daarop een stekker met 3 polen.
Het doormeten van de LMM potmeter zoals aangegeven is op de site die ik hieronder geef. Doe je dat met stilstaande motor dat je de luchtschijf van de ke jetronic indrukt ? (Bij mij zit daar een LPG mixer op die schroef je er zo af.)
of moet dit met een draaiende motor?

Vanmorgen weer gestart en dat ging weer op vrijwel dezelfde als in het filmpje...

Deze info ook al eerder doorgelezen: post119790.html?hilit=potmeter%20doormeten#p119790

Potmeter op het plaatje groen weergegeven.
Bijlagen
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LLR-LMM_KLR.jpg
Het Groene onderdeeltje is de potmeter
LLR-LMM_KLR.jpg (42.8 KiB) 800 keer bekeken
Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » di okt 18, 2022 12:43 pm

Het zonnetje schijnt en lekker warm buiten Benz motorkap open, tijd voor een update.

Nadat ik onderstaande werkzaamheden had uitgevoerd,en de mixer + luchtweger ontvet had en daarna de boel
weer had gemonteerd, startte de auto wel beter. Komt misschien ook dat het zonnetje erop staat.
OVP relais en brandstof ga ik nog bekijken die heb ik er nu uitgehaald.

Met de multimeter zojuist even de ohm waardes zoals die horen te zijn op pennen 1,2 en 3 gemeten
en daar komen niet de waardes uit zoals voorgeschreven. (zoals op de site van Tiko Almere)
Alleen zoals te zien bij de luchtweigerklep volledig open een waarde van 4,23 waar 4K ohm word voorgeschreven.
Kan ik uit deze metingen opmaken dat de LMM luchtmassameter van mij stuk is.
Hieronder de foto's van hoe ik gemeten heb,misschien ook handig als handleiding voor andere mensen.
Bijlagen
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Blauwe waarde door mij gemeten bij de LMM.jpg
Blauwe waarde door mij gemeten bij de LMM.jpg (536.61 KiB) 760 keer bekeken
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Gesloten gasklep pen 1&2.jpg
Gesloten gasklep pen 1&2.jpg (904.21 KiB) 760 keer bekeken
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Bij gesloten luchtweger pen 2&3.jpg
Bij gesloten luchtweger pen 2&3.jpg (1.06 MiB) 760 keer bekeken
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Bj open luchtweger pen 2&3.jpg
Bj open luchtweger pen 2&3.jpg (944.85 KiB) 760 keer bekeken
Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » vr okt 21, 2022 10:21 am

Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » vr okt 21, 2022 6:01 pm

Maurice.
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 274
Geregistreerd: di apr 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Woonplaats: Grootebroek
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja


Re: 230E start met schommelend toerental bij koude start.

Berichtdoor Maurice. » za nov 26, 2022 11:49 am

Inmiddels heb ik er een nieuwe luchtmassameter ingezet, daardoor is het slechte koude starten nu wel over.
De LMM afstellen op 0,7 volt is wel gelukt voltage werkt erg gevoelig op iedere beweging van de LMM.
Een handleiding hoe je een LMM moet plaatsen staat op het W126 forum met duidelijke plaatjes.
Ik weet alleen niet of er verder nu nog iets aan mijn auto afgesteld moet worden wat te maken heeft
met de nieuw geplaatste luchtmassameter. :?

Op de oude LMM zie ik wel slijtage sporen op een contact onder.
Bijlagen
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Luchtmassa meter  (1).jpeg
Luchtmassa meter (1).jpeg (238.28 KiB) 555 keer bekeken
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Luchtmassameter 3.jpeg
Luchtmassameter 3.jpeg (206.69 KiB) 555 keer bekeken
Maurice.
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