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Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan : Techniek

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Het is nu vr maart 29, 2024 7:04 am

Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

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Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » za apr 30, 2016 2:45 pm

Hoi Allemaal,

Ik heb mijn Mercedes 200 een tijd (winter) stil laten staan. Ik rijd er heel weinig mee, en eigenlijk heeft hij de laatste tijd met starten en dan goed wegkomen van plek wat moeite, na wat opwarmen geen problemen verder. Vervolgens na deze winterstop toch normaal ongeveer 15km heen en 15km terug gereden. De blower motor deed het de gehele rit niet, dus eerst de zekeringen gechecked.

Bij thuiskomst, bleek tijdens het zoeken van blower motor probleem, de benzine toevoerslang van de carburateur losgeschoten! Weet niet precies wanneer, maar ben verbaasd dat ik nog thuis ben gekomen. Vervolgens weer aangesloten en blowermotor verder gaan (onder)zoeken.

Na een weekje of 2 (heb niet veel tijd, en ben behoorlijk nieuw op dit gebied, maar wel technisch onderlegd), probeerde ik de auto weer eens te starten, maar niet meer dan wat laatste schokken en spurten, kreeg hem niet stationair. Alsof het laatste beetje benzine verbruikt was in het systeem.

Ik zag dat het benzine lampje ook brandde en vermoed nu dat het laatste beetje vuile benzine ergens een opstopping veroorzaakt. Eerst benzine wat aangevuld, toen de accu 1x leeg gestart.

Vervolgens met rem reiniger geprobeert te starten, en dan slaat hij wél aan. Normaals gecheckt of er bezine uit de benzine-pomp komt (slangetje dat losgeschoten was), en dat komt er... Het rare is, dat de benzine-pomp, bij mij voorin zit, terwijl ik overal lees dat deze rechtsonder, naast de filter en ander component zou zitten. (Wellicht heeft dat met ombouw van gas te maken gehad) Bij mij zie ik dus de pomp voorin zitten en direct naar de carburateur gaan. (Anders had ik de filter schoon kunnen maken wellicht??)

Daarom denk ik nu dat de carburateur het probleem veroorzaakt van niet starten. Dit denk ik omdat er een onbekende hoeveelheid bezine is verloren (lampje ging branden, dus wellicht vieze bezine ergens in systeem), auto start wel op remreiniger en toevoerslang bij carburateur inlaat geeft benzine). Ik ben een leek wat betreft autotechniek, maar probeer info te verzamelen en heb helaas niet meer middelen dan een simpele gereedschapskist.

Is het realistisch dat ik zelf de carburateur los ga maken en reinigen? Of zie ik iets over het hoofd en zou het probleem ergens anders zitten?
denrei
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Mafkees » za apr 30, 2016 10:30 pm

Nog even niks openschroeven. Kan ontsteking ook zijn en of brandstof toevoer. Wacht even op meer reacties van onze kenners.
Mafkees
 


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Arpad » zo mei 01, 2016 7:54 pm

Je schrijft dat hij wel start op remmenreiniger. Kan je hem hierop ook even laten lopen. (met 2 personen, 1 pesoon starten de andere persoon inspuiten).
Als hij erop start dan werkt je ontsteking in ieder geval.
Je zegt dat er benzine uit de leiding komt, heb je deze benzine opgevangen, hoe ziet de benzine eruit.
Verwacht dat je een probleem (verstopping) hebt in je carburateur. Openmaken en schoonmaken.
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Arpad
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » ma mei 02, 2016 1:45 pm

@Arpad: Starten gaat inderdaad op remmenreiniger, maar weet niet of ik iets beschadig en of het zin heeft dit langer dan een paar tellen te doen. Of bedoel je juist dat ik de auto moet proberen langer te laten lopen, en dus de halve bus leegspuiten? (waarmee misschien de carburateur weer "open" gaat?)

Benzine ziet er gewoon uit (voor zover ik dat kan beoordelen), beetje geel en geen drap......
denrei
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » ma mei 09, 2016 2:46 pm

Heeft iemand nog een verlossende tip?
Voordat ik de carburateur ga openmaken en schoonmaken, zou ik graag weten of ik iets anders (gemakkelijkers) kan doen. Zou het langer doorstarten op remreiniger zin hebben?

Alvast bedankt!
denrei
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor mazdarati2 » ma mei 09, 2016 5:18 pm

Maak eerst maar schoon haha. Kan wonderen doen.
mazdarati2
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Dannygroot » ma mei 09, 2016 8:57 pm

ik zou eerst schoonmaken en kijken of hij dan beter loopt meestal van staan wil die verstoppen door drapvorming
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Lange Jan » di mei 10, 2016 12:21 pm

sluit ik me bji aan.... schoonmaken en dan verder proberen.... hoelang had ie stilgestaan?
Lange Jan
 


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » vr sep 01, 2017 10:33 am

Inmiddels meer dan een jaar (!) verder en toch wat vorderingen gemaakt, maar auto start nog steeds niet!

Carburateur heb ik helemaal open gehad mbv handleiding (maar blijft ingewikkeld):
- nieuwe pakkingen geplaatst ( zo'n soort setje besteld: )

- vlotterbakje gereinigd en nieuw ventieltje geplaatst ( Foto's op het forum uploaden)
- op de naald zag ik geen oneffenheden, dus niet vervangen.
- nieuwe ATF olie bij zuiger erin.
- Nieuw membraan bij deze zuiger geplaatst.
- nieuwe vierkante zwarte flens tussen carburateur en chassis geplaatst (hier had ik probleem met schroefdraad, dus zou misschien valse lucht kunnen aantrekken hier)

Vervolgens weer teruggebouwd en auto proberen te starten. Dit lukte uiteindelijk met remmenreiniger erbij en daarna liep hij een half uur probleemloos!!

Probleem opgelost, dacht ik, want starten na 10 minuten lukte ook nog, zonder remmenreiniger, zie [youtube] http://youtu.be/jSUYFq5g350 [/youtube] Denk omdat hij warm was.

Starten na een paar dagen lukte niet meer! Het lijkt dus alsof hij geen koude start kan iod.

Zekeringenkast nogmaals gecheckt en zelf op andere pootjes aangesloten, omdat de contactvlakjes er niet mooi meer uit zagen, geen resultaat.

Wil er nog wel wat tijd aan besteden, maar ben nu eigenlijk ten einde raad:
- Is er iemand die mijn nog een verlossende tip kan geven of kan helpen?
- Kan iemand een garage in de buurt aanraden in centrum Breda?
- of zal ik hem dan maar door de sloop laten ophalen??

Any ideas are welcome!!
denrei
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Frans D » vr sep 01, 2017 4:22 pm

Bijna leeg wegzetten is vragen om problemen met vervuiling en begrijp ik goed dat de wagen is omgebouwd naar LPG, of was hij dat voorheen?

Makkelijkst is na het starten een bougie eruit te draaien;
Natte bougie: krijgt benzine
Droge bougie: krijgt geen benzine
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Frans D
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Type wagen: 300CE-24 Cabriolet
Bouwjaar: 1992
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor JosW124 » vr sep 01, 2017 4:32 pm

Klinkt een beetje als ethanol restanten die in de benzine zitten, en tijdens stilstand zich afzetten aan de binnenkant van de carburateur en dan vooral in de sproeiers.
Hopeloos want diezelfde ethanol trekt vocht aan en kan pakkingen en andere afdichtingen verwoesten.
Vooral bij oudere voertuigen.
Dus ja, ik zou eerst maar eens de carburateurs schoonmaken en de filters vernieuwen.
Ik heb jaarlijks gezeik met de carburateurs van mijn antieke motorfietsen.
Geldt tevens voor kettingzagen, bosmaaiers etc;
Beter aan het eind van het seizoen de gewone naft er uit en synthetische benzine er in.

Succes,
Jos.
Geluk is een oude Mercedes met een volle tank.
JosW124
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor JosW124 » vr sep 01, 2017 9:53 pm

"Any ideas are welcome!!"

Ok dan Denrei,

Filter in de brandstoftank bekeken? Om bij het begin te beginnen.

Jos.
Geluk is een oude Mercedes met een volle tank.
JosW124
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » za sep 02, 2017 5:48 pm

Starten op remmenreiniger is me maar 1x gelukt, zie filmpje. Nu hoor ik hem alleen ontbranden, maar stationair lukt niet meer dus.

Plan is nu in volgorde (kost me wel een paar weken doorlooptijd...):

Ga de bougies checken zoals de tip hierboven.
Ga de filter vervangen, weet dat er 1tje onder de tank bij rechterachterwiel zit. Zijn er nog anderen waar ik rekening mee moet houden? (Ik zie op onderdelensites dat er 4 verschillende brandstoffiltertjes te koop zijn).
Carburateurvlotterbakje nogmaals nakijken en zwarte vierkante pakking vervangen met juiste schroeven.
denrei
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Prometheus » ma sep 04, 2017 11:20 am

Heeft op LPG gelopen ?
Zit er nog een brandstofonderbrekingscircuit in ?
Bij LPG auto's wordt de benzinetoevoer onderbroken op het moment dat er naar LPG wordt overgeschakeld. Bij uitbouwen van de LPG installatie laat men dat nog wel eens zitten en dat werkt uiteraard totdat zo'n relais het begeeft.
Prometheus
 


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » ma sep 04, 2017 5:47 pm

Ja heeft op LPG gelopen.
Naar mijn idee is alles eruit gegaan, maar weet dat niet zeker. Waar zou dit kunnen zitten, en hoe ziet het eruit?

Wat ik wel gek vind, is dat de brandstofpomp voorin zit, direct aan de ingang van de carburateur. Ik dacht dat normaal gesproken daartussen de cilinderige filter zou moeten zitten, en dus de pomp achter-onderin.

3 verschillende brandstoffilters zijn inmiddels besteld...
denrei
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Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Prometheus » di sep 05, 2017 10:42 am

Prometheus
 


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » do sep 07, 2017 11:03 am

Gisteren kon ik niet weerstaan, mede door jullie enthousiaste berichtjes(!), toch even aan mijn auto te werken:

Mijn stappenplan uitgevoerd:

- Bougies wilde ik checken op nat/droog, maar had niet de juiste sleutel om hem te verwijderen.
- Kap verwijdert achter rechtsonder auto: inderdaad GEEN filters/pomp/iets aanwezig, eigenlijk een nutteloze ruimte.
- Tankfilter wel gevonden, maar kreeg ik met geen mogelijkheid los met mijn tools, achteraf gezien beter.
- Een ander filter voor bezine niet gevonden! Moet ik wellicht eentje plaatsen tussen bezinepomp en carburateur?
- Hele tank leeg laten pompen via benzinemotor voorin.
- Vervolgens gevult met 11liter bezine en 1/3 flesje WYNN'S BENZINE PLUS CARBURATEUR toegevoegd.
- Remmenreiniger in luchtinlaat gespoten voor een boost.
- Gestart en hij sputterde maar vervolgens LOPEN!! :D
- Na 5 minuten lopen, uitgezet en nogmaals gestart met gemonteerde luchtinlaat: ook starten!
- Ik blij !!

Hopelijk doet hij het volgende keer ook nog, maar ik heb er ergens wel vertrouwen in. Denk dat dus deze benzine te oud was. Icm het schoonmaken van de carburateur zorgde ervoor dat hij het weer doet!

Nog een paar vragen:

- Moet ik een extra filtertje plaatsen tussen benzine en carburateur? Heeft in principe zonder filter zeker 500km gelopen zonder problemen.
- Waarvoor dient de retourleiding uit de carburateur? Betekent dit dat de benzine constant rondgepompt wordt? (en wellicht ergens anders gefilterd wordt?)
- Wat moet ik met de tankvulling doen, als ik hem nu weer de winter laat staan. Ik lees verschillende dingen. Ik kan hem leegpompen zoals ik hierboven heb beschreven. Of moet ik hem helemaal vullen?

- Iemand tips om mijn oorspronkelijke probleem van deze soap op te lossen? Blowermotor werkt niet meer, maar heb alles al gecheckt:
- Zekeringen in dit circuit zijn OK
- Motor draait wel gewoon op 12V accu
- Op stand 3 (bijpass dan het weerstandsblokje dat voor 3 standen zorgt) geen spanning op klemmetjes
- interieur 3 standenknop uit elkaar gehaald, lijkt niks mis mee.

Groet,

Dennis
Bijlagen
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IMG_9930.jpg
Tankfilter niet los te krijgen...
IMG_9930.jpg (106.88 KiB) 2970 keer bekeken
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IMG_9941.jpg
Oude bezine (+-1jaar oud)
IMG_9941.jpg (110.95 KiB) 2970 keer bekeken
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IMG_9939.jpg
Nieuwe bezine (eur95)
IMG_9939.jpg (101.62 KiB) 2970 keer bekeken
denrei
Fresh Boarder
Fresh Boarder
 
Berichten: 13
Geregistreerd: vr apr 29, 2016 1:09 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 200
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Frans D » do sep 07, 2017 8:13 pm

Avatar gebruiker
Frans D
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 263
Geregistreerd: ma aug 28, 2017 7:27 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE-24 Cabriolet
Bouwjaar: 1992
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor Ton200TE » do sep 07, 2017 9:49 pm

Volgooien met BP Ultimate of Firezone 102, die bevatten gegarandeerd geen ethanol.
Ton200TE
Senior Boarder
Senior Boarder
 
Berichten: 72
Geregistreerd: wo jun 23, 2010 5:02 pm
Woonplaats: Rotterdam
Type wagen: 200TE
Bouwjaar: 1992
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: Startprobleem W124 na stilstaan

Berichtdoor denrei » vr sep 08, 2017 1:07 pm

Hoi,

DR500sec, bedankt voor de heldere uitleg!!

Vandaag, 2 dagen later in deze regenachtige dag, toch even geprobeerd te starten: Hij start dus niet meer!

Waarschijnlijk iets met koudstartprobleem? Hij lijkt niet genoeg bezine te pakken, of iets anders. Het leek wel of de remmenreiniger van vorige keer, net dat extra zetje geeft om de carburateur aan de gang te zetten.

Ik heb een videootje gemaakt zodat jullie misschien een conclusie kunnen trekken: https://youtu.be/Y_ODDrzOlSk

Daarnaast ook even naar de externe zekering gezocht. De kabel loopt direct van motor naar weerstandsblokje, daarna kan ik er niet meer bij, omdat hij richting dashboard bestuurderskant lijkt te gaan. Weet iemand hoe ik aan de binnenkant komt? lijkt zich achter het stuur te bevinden. zie foto...
Bijlagen
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FullSizeRender (1).jpg
geen externe zekering op deze kabel, daarna verdwijnt hij richting bestuurderskant dasboard.
FullSizeRender (1).jpg (148.83 KiB) 1243 keer bekeken
denrei
Fresh Boarder
Fresh Boarder
 
Berichten: 13
Geregistreerd: vr apr 29, 2016 1:09 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 200
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee

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