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opgelost..motor slaat af ( belletjes) in filterjes : Techniek

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opgelost..motor slaat af ( belletjes) in filterjes

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opgelost..motor slaat af ( belletjes) in filterjes

Berichtdoor Peter1 » wo nov 30, 2011 1:54 pm

probleempje nu.....start moeilijk soms en als ie start dan loopt ie even goed...na 500 meter slaat de motor af en pas na heel lang doorstarten doet ie het weer voor 500 meter.

als ie eenmaal aanslaat loopt ie wel even ..lijkt wel of ie geen diesel krijgt ofzo.

brandstof filtertje vervangen (plastic)..en de brandstof filter zelf.

wat mij opvalt is dat er in het doorzichtige kunststof brandstof filter vol met luchtbellen zit
een constante borrelende golf van luchtbelletjes.......

volgens mij klopt dit echt niet !

wie kan mij info geven.
Laatst bijgewerkt door Peter1 op ma dec 05, 2011 11:18 am, in totaal 3 keer bewerkt.
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Gullwing » wo nov 30, 2011 2:08 pm

Er zijn een aantal mogelijkheden maar de meest voor de hand liggende en ook het makkelijkst uit te sluiten zijn de slangetjes van de retouren die vanaf de verstuivers naar de tank teruggaan.

Haal bij een dieselspecialist of een goede automaterialen zaak 1,5 m van dit spul en vervang de huidige slangen.
Goede kans dat het probleem opgelost is.
Gullwing
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor KlaasB » wo nov 30, 2011 2:36 pm

het moeilijk starten komt omdat je blijkbaar ergens in de dieselleidingen een lek (of meerdere) hebt waardoor er lucht in het systeem kan komen:
door de wet van de communiserende vaten kan daardoor de diesel bij stilstand terug naar de tank lopen

tijdens het rijden 'zuigt' het pompje op de brandstof pomp (deze zit NA je groffilter)
schijnbaar al lucht aan: de stroom luchtbelletjes die hier ziet.
na dit pompje wordt het min of meer 'pers'

de slang na het pompje loskoppelen, starten en de diesel in een bakje laten lopen
en kijken of er dan nog lucht in zit (groffilter): dan zit het lek blijkbaar tussen tank en pompje

dieselleidingen checken, alle slangeklemmetjes even natrekken
ook zit er (volgens mij) een pakking achter dit pompje op de BSP wat lek kan zijn

kan een lastig probleem zijn met meerdere mogelijkheden... :(


MVG K
KlaasB
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » wo nov 30, 2011 2:58 pm

het starten gaat wel redelijk, en als ik hem stationair laat lopen, blijft ie lopen tenminste de tijd dat ik er naast sta.

als ik gas geef dan slaat ie af na een een minuutje,
een borrrelend feest in kunststof filtertje.

wel even 5 liter diesel in de tank gegooit om er zeker van te zijn dat er wel bransstof in zit.

maar dat is dus zo..geen verschil.
ga allle adviesen en feedback rustig doornemen.
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Gombal » wo nov 30, 2011 3:40 pm

Zit zomaar even na te denken maar neem aan dat er geen diesel op de grond onder de auto ligt?
Als er ergens lucht in kan, kan er theoretisch ook diesel uit.
Dus zoals Klaas al zegt, eerst je leidingen/slangen checken, je hebt vanaf je tank naar de stalen leiding een stukje slang, boven je subframe zit dat (kan je lekker bij :sick: ) en onder je motorkap een stuk slang naar je doorzichtige filtertje.
Mocht je nu nergens wat lek kunnen vinden, theoretisch zou als je groffilter (zit in je tank) dicht zit, de pomp vacuum kunnen trekken (verdringerpomp, weet alleen niet hoeveel vacuum hij voor elkaar krijgt daar hij ook maar iets meer als 0,5 bar oplevert)
En dan is elk haarscheurtje in een rubberen slang, gaatje zo groot als een speldeprik in de metalen leiding genoeg om lucht aan te zuigen.
Ook al zien de slangen er aan de buitenkant nog goed uit, binnenin kunnen ze vol met scheurtjes zitten. Had dit met de diesel retourslangetjes, zagen er aan de buitenkant nog goed uit maar zaten aan de binnenkant helemaal vol met scheurtjes.
En dan helpt een stukje eraf halen ook niet, scheuren en lekken ze nog harder ;)
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Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » wo nov 30, 2011 3:58 pm

nee hoor er ligt geen diesel op de grond tenminste niet opgevallen ofzo.

de slangetjes die op de verstuivers zitten zijn al vernieuwd.

dat zijn de slangetjes die van verstuiver naar verstuiver gaan. doorgelust ofzo.
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Gombal » wo nov 30, 2011 4:04 pm

Bedoelde ook niet dat die lek waren bij jou, daar krijg je geen luchtbellen van ;)
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Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » wo nov 30, 2011 4:18 pm

welke slangetjes op de verstuivers bedoel je dan ?

ik ken alleen deze en natuurlijk de metalen.

gr peter
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Gombal » wo nov 30, 2011 4:25 pm

Bedoelde die slangetjes alleen als voorbeeld Peter, die waren bij mij lek omdat er scheurtjes inzaten die je niet kon zien aan de buitenkant.
Heeft dus niets met jou probleem te maken!
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Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » wo nov 30, 2011 4:36 pm

oke ik dacht al , is mijn sumiere net aan het ontwikkelde autotechnische knobbel de weg kwijt.

groetjes peter.

de weg is grof filter in tank, brandstofpomp, rubber leiding werk, metaal leiding werk en dan tot het kunststof filtertje.

nou daar moet ik uit zien te komen
alleen opzoeken waar de groffilter en brandstof pomp zit.
dat groffilter zal vermoedelijk ook nooit zijn vervangen.
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Gombal » wo nov 30, 2011 5:00 pm

Bijna goed Peter, de weg is (gezien vanaf de tank)
Groffilter, slang, metalen leiding naar voren, slang, doorzichtig slangfilter, slang, dieselvoorverwarmer (4 dieselslang aansluitingen aldaar), slang, pomp, slang, hoofdfilter, slang, inspuitpomp.
Om het duidelijker te maken, hier 2 plaatjes, nr 68 is het groffilter, 43 is het doorzichtige filtertje, 86 is de voorverwarmer (148 is de warmtewisselaar om de diesel te verwarmen), 3 is de pomp de de diesel aanzuigt en naar je hoofdfilter/inspuitpomp pompt, 42 is je hoofdflter, 1 is de inspuitpomp.
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tankkant.jpg

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pompkant.jpg

Ook nog een fotootje waar je de pomp goed ziet zitten op de inspuitpomp.
Heel dit geheel zit onder je inlaat aanzuigbuizen tegen je motorblok aan gemonteerd.
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pomp.jpg
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Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » wo nov 30, 2011 5:08 pm

dank je wel voor de plaatjes en uitleg....phhh .
tjonge das wel een hele weg van slangetjes enzo.

ik dacht dat de brandstof pomp bij de tank zou zitten, maar er zit dus een zuig pomp in het systeem.

nou ik ga er morgen wee verder na kijken, alles even laten zakken in mijn knobbel.

ziet er wel ingewikkeld uit, maar ik kijk hoe ver ik kom.

groetejs peter
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Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor KlaasB » wo nov 30, 2011 6:02 pm

als je dan toch aan de knutsel gaat, blaas je dieselleidingen ook even door:
vóór de brandstofpomp én bij de tank wel de leidingen los halen!
(ik heb het eens gedaan vanaf de brandstofpomp naar de tank, en dat was erg dom...)

er ontstaat onderin een dieseltank in de loop der jaren nogal wat zwarte drab wat toch
voorzichtig aan ook in de leidingen terecht komt en die dan wat dichtslibben.

GB, correct me if wrong...

MVG K
KlaasB
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » do dec 01, 2011 11:56 am

wat ik ga doen is de slag loshalen die op het kunstof filtertje zit gemonteerd (tank zijde)
als het goed is beredeneerd elimineer ik volledig het voortraject...dus tank ..grof tankfilter..leidingwerk tot de motorruimte.

dus losse slang op het plastic filtertje, en deze in een jerycan hangen met diesel.

starten en kijken of het probleem verdwenen is.

dan weet ik in iedergeval n welk deel het probleem zit ( voor of na het plastic filtertje)

nou das toch leuk bedacht zo..als het klopt wat ik beredeneer.

ga het proberen.

groetejs peter
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » do dec 01, 2011 1:10 pm

volgens mij lekt er wel wat diesel op straat , vanwege de regen nog niet verder.
wel is het zo dat als ik de auto start, er even geen belletjes zijn, dan loopt de auto goed
na 30 seconden beginnen de eerst belletjes en dat gaat dan in rap tempo na een stroom belletjes en dan gaat de motor slechter lopen, en valt dan uit.
als ik gas geef gaat het proces van belletjes vormen sneller.

groetejs peter
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » do dec 01, 2011 4:46 pm

vanwege de regen maar even stilgelegd, ik wil zowie zo het tankfilter ook vervangen en meteen de rubber leiding en klemmetjes ook maar.
dus we gaan ff de brug op .
wie heefd voor mij het bestelnr van het tankfilter.

vr gr peter
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Gombal » do dec 01, 2011 6:40 pm

Staat op de foto ;)
Bijlagen
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Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor NicoenSarina » do dec 01, 2011 7:08 pm

Hallo Peter(1)

Als ik alles goed leest kan het niet anders zijn als dat hij (valse) lucht aanzuigt.
Dat je vermoede dat de pomp bij de tank zit komt van een benzine auto met electrische opvoerpomp. Oude diesels werken zoals beschreven.
Echt supermoeilijk is het niet, wel even bewerkelijk.Schrijf even de gegevens bij het plaatje op een briefje en ga de route onder de auto eens volgen.Het groffilter reinigen of vernieuwen is verstandig.Als je een rubber slangetje ziet, kniek deze eens even en kijk of je scheurtjes ziet?verteerd? ook bij het slangeklemmetje. De stalen leiding kan ook doorgeroest zijn(buitenkant) of beschadigd.
Plastic huizen van filters hebben bij ouderdom ook nogal eens de neiging om een haarscheurtje te krijgen. Als je de hele route gevolgd heeft en geen lek heeft of het repareerd heeft moet het probleem over zijn. Het komt eigenlijk maar zelden voor bij Mercedes/Volkswagen dat het aanzuiggedeelte van de pomp niet goed is. Bij Peugeot en Fiat is dat wel anders.
NicoenSarina
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » do dec 01, 2011 7:20 pm

dank je, ik zal zowiezo de slangetjes vernieuwen van af het grof filter na de stalen leiding toe.
en klemmetjes uiteraart, dit vanwege de ouderdom.
ik moet alleen de diameter even uitzoeken.

deze leiding is eens opgelengd met een stukje buis er tussen( zag ik met de APK).
en dan is dat ook meteen netjes.
als ik het groffilter goed kan reinigen doe ik dat liever, hij hoeft niet nieuw alleen wel goed

groetejs peter
Peter1
 


Re: 200D start moeilijk ( luchtbellen in kunststof filtertje)

Berichtdoor Peter1 » vr dec 02, 2011 10:55 am

zo vandaag even 2 meter nieuwe brandstofslang gekocht ( inw 8mm).
en van die mooie klemmetjes.

jerrycan met 4 liter diesel in de motorruimte vastgezet en de slang op kunstof filtertje aangesloten.

gestart en jahoor geen luchtbelletjes meer, de motor loopt weer goed.

dus bewezen dat de lucht opgezogen word voor het kunstof filtertje.

dus nu kan de sneweg op en na de brug toerijden (10km)en onder de auto kruipen en ff knutselen.

in iedergeval weet ik waar het zit.

traject waarin de lucht meegezogen word is slangetje tussen kunstof filtertje- metalen leiding- slangetje naar tankfilter- en uiteraard het tankfilter zelf.

de rest is dus oke.
Peter1
 

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