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Erg snel vuile bougies 230E : Techniek

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Het is nu di maart 19, 2024 4:36 am

Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

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Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rick » ma feb 19, 2018 9:52 pm

Beste sleutelaars

vorige week onderweg verloor mn 230E opeens vermogen als ik van 80 naar 90 wil optrekken. Al stotterend en bibberend thuis gekomen en eenmaal thuis liep hij stationair als een natte krant en wegrijden ging helemaal niet meer.

Wat blijkt; Bougies vervangen en hij loopt weer. Nu was mijn vraag, wat is normaal?
Hoe vaak worden gemiddeld de bougies vervangen, of heb ik de verkeerde?
Ong. 5000 km geleden heeft de plaatselijke garage ook al de bougies vervangen ivm slecht lopen.
Dit keer zelf gedaan. Bougies NGK BP6EFS

Hij verbruikt nogal olie, namelijk 1 liter p maand. Kan ik dit verhelpen? Met een kleine ingreep of moet ik denken aan kleppen vervangen oid?

Er staat 180 op de teller, valt dus wel mee...

(echt veel verstand van auto's heb ik ook weer niet)

Ik ben benieuwd naar jullie mening


Rick
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Rick
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Bram Jansen » ma feb 19, 2018 10:20 pm

Een vervelend verhaal Rick. Hoeveel km rijd je in een maand.

Ik heb het zelfde gehad met een W126 300SE

Heb o.a klepsteelrubbers vervangen, ook regelmatig een halve liter, ook wel een hele liter ATF aan de olie toegevoegd. Ik had zulke bougies om de 300km dus voor mij een bekend verhaal.
Niet elke situatie is het zelfde, dus wacht even wat antwoorden af.

Ik heb het nooit opgelost.
Bram Jansen
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Bart_vg » ma feb 19, 2018 10:29 pm

Geen last van zichtbare rook uit de uitlaat bij het rijden ?
Moeilijk geval deze, welk soort olie gebruik je en hoe lang zit deze er al op?

Lekke koppakking zou ik uitsluiten als hoofdreden gezien ze alle 4 zo vettig staan. Versleten segmenten zouden dit kunnen veroorzaken maar vrij onwaarschijnlijk dat de wagen dan nog in staat was goed te rijden. Ontsteking zou voor een droge zwarte aanslag zorgen (te rijke verbranding) dus ook niet de dader. Blijft er idd niets anders over dan via de kleppen...

Je gaf in je ander topic ook aan de koelvloeistof te hebben bijgevuld, moet je dit frequent doen?
Bart_vg
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Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rick » ma feb 19, 2018 10:54 pm

Ik rijd gemiddeld 1000 km per maand. Veel korte stukjes 10 a 20 km.
Hij rookt wel aardig best blauwe rook, je ruikt m ook behoorlijk.
De koelvloeistof heb ik gister voor het eerst bij moeten vullen sinds mei 2017.
Rick
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Micha12345 » ma feb 19, 2018 11:04 pm

Zoals bram al zei is je koelvloeistof toch aan de lage kant
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Micha12345
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Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Raytheman » di feb 20, 2018 8:35 am

Ik sluit me aan bij Richard;
Je kan constateren dat er veel olie in de verbrandingskamers komt. Niet in 1 maar in allemaal gezien dezelfde status van de bougies.
Hoe komt die olie daar? enorme overdruk? Leg de olievuldop eens los, word die eraf geblazen met lopende motor? carterventilatie in orde?
De overdruk (=met olie vernevelde lucht) gaat via een leiding rechtstreeks het luchtfilter in en komt in de verbrandingskamers. Haal die eens los en kijk hoe die dan loopt.
Versleten zuigerveren? compressie (laten) meten.
Rij er eens mee naar een garage met oldtimer-ervaring..

Die kilometerstand kan je niet van uit gaan en is geen enkele indicatie
ik vind t moeilijk om te zeggen, maar ik doe t toch: aluminium
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Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Bram Jansen » di feb 20, 2018 8:47 am

Heeft de auto lange tijd stilgestaan Rick. En zo ja in welke omgeving?
Het zou mooi zijn als je dit weet, dan heb je ook een zoek indicatie.
Bram Jansen
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Semrick » di feb 20, 2018 9:46 am

99% zeker dat dit komt door versleten klepseals.
Ik heb exact hetzelfde probleem gehad bij mijn vorige 200 en mijn huidige 300E.
Na het vervangen van de klepseals nooit meer last van gehad. Seals zelf kosten je de kop niet.
Het is alleen een klusje waar je wel wat kennis, kunde en speciaal gereedschap voor nodig hebt.
Onder andere een nippel die je in het bougiegat kan draaien en waarmee je perslucht in de cylinder kiunt blazen. Hiermee voorkom je dat de klep tijdens de reparatie in de cylinder valt. Snuffel anders eens of het forum. Over klepseals vervangen is denk ik wel het 1 en ander te vinden. Hieronder Alsvast wat foto's die ik heb gemaakt tijdens mijn klusje.
Op 1 van de foto's zie je nog net de plug in het bougiegat zitten. Ook is op die foto de verenspanner te zien waarmee je de veer kan indrukken. Je moet dan na het indrukken 2 halve maantjes weghalen die de klepteel vasthouden. Daarna kan je de veer ontspannen en verwijderen. Voordat je dit kunt doen moet je eerst de brug die de veer zelf op zijn plaats houdt losschroeven. Daarbij goed opletten dat de 2 plaatjes die bovenop de veer liggen niet krijt raken. Een sterke magneet(antenne) komt dan zeker van pas. Op zich is het niet zo'n hele moeilijke reparatie als je weet hoe het moet en je het gereedschap hebt. Het is alleen te doen maar eigenlijk is het een klusje voor 2 man. EN dan met name omdat je tijdens het opspannen van de veer de maantjes moet weghalen (of plaatsen) en het is gewoon makkelijker als iemand anders dat op dat moment kan doen. :whistle:
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Semrick
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
 
Berichten: 317
Geregistreerd: ma mei 02, 2011 4:33 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: N.n.b.
Bouwjaar: N.n.b.
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Bram Jansen » di feb 20, 2018 10:04 am

Je zou kunnen beginnen met de klepseals/klepsteelrubbers maar heb er niet al te hoge verwachtingen van.
Bij mij hielp het niets.

In dit topic komt alles er over voorbij. http://w126club.nl/verkoolde-bougies-en ... 13396.html
Waarschijnlijk heb ik om ruimte op het W126 te maken de foto's uit mijn topic gekiept.

Lees het maar eens door. Vastzittende olieschraapveren was bij mij de meest waarschijnlijke oorzaak.
Als eerder geschreven, ieder geval is anders, daarom vind ik, hoewel het natuurlijk zou kunnen, 99% zeker de klepseals wat TE optimistisch.

De bougies zijn naar mijn mening TE verkoold voor slecht werkende klepseals, maar misschien kunnen andere leden hierover ook eens oordelen.
Bram Jansen
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Micha12345 » di feb 20, 2018 10:32 am

uit je vorige topic heeft iemand gezegd dat hij een onderdeel heeft herkent uit een gasinstallatie.

Als je wagen misschien uit Duitsland stamt (Waar km terugdraaien nog normaal is) en de wagen heeft veel km gemaakt op gas dan kan het zijn dat je zuigers gewoon lekken of als je geluk hebt zijn het de klepseals.

Is ook raar dat je zo weinig koelvloeistof hebt (Misschien heeft de vorige eigenaar hem overhit)

Laten we hopen dat het de klepseals zijn
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Micha12345
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
 
Berichten: 1105
Geregistreerd: di jan 05, 2016 8:46 pm
Woonplaats: Venlo
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee
Opmerkingen / andere wagens.:


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Dompie » di feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm

Heb dat met mijn zoon zijn 200 van '86 op LPG (zelfde motor) ook gehad. Heel hoog olieverbruik en vervuilde bougies na minder dan 10.000 km. Daar groeiden precies bloemkolen op :lol: Na enkele minuten stationair en je reed dan door een serieuze blauwe walm. Ook bij gas lossen op de snelweg of bij aanschuiven in de file. Op het laatst verbruikte hij vlot 2 L olie op 1000 km. Auto heeft wel 275.000 km. In december had hij een verbrande uitlaatklep op de 3é cilinder. Ik heb dan de cilinderkop gedemonteerd en bij een eenmans revisiebedrijfje binnen gedaan. Volgens die man was de klep verbrand door de opgehoopte olie op de klep. En zo inbrand. Zeker in kombinatie met LPG, wat een hogere verbrandingstemperatuur heeft. En de klepgeleiders waren rotversleten. Dus zijn alle klepgeleiders vervangen, 3 nieuwe kleppen, klepseals en kop gevlakt. Sindsdien draaid de motor als een zonnetje en het olieverbruik is opgelost. Klepseals & klepgeleiders was in de jaren 80 al een bekend probleem bij de M102 motor.
Mvg Dirk
Dompie
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 34
Geregistreerd: ma mei 12, 2014 8:01 pm
Woonplaats: Grobbendonk (B)
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 200
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Ja
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Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rojo124 » di feb 20, 2018 6:36 pm

Er zat toch een berg historie/papieren bij de auto Rick ?.....als blijkt dat de auto lang heeft stilgestaan en daarvoor op LPG heeft gereden (wat er inmiddels is uitgebouwd)....dan zou ik er eerst een een tijdje mee gaan rijden en kijken wat de motor doet.

dat zie je snel genoeg aan de nieuwe bougies en misschien neemt het roken ook wel af....meestal bij auto's op gas wordt de benzine injectie verwaarloost dus laat hem eens goed afstellen.

Deze bougies zien er niet goed uit....kijk na een paar dagen rijden eens even naar de nieuwe bougies die er nu in zitten.
En de vorige garage heeft er wel duidelijk verkeerde boegies in gedaan Bpr6.

ik zie deze Benz wel eens rijden op de A15 omgeving Rijnmond klopt dat Rick ?
gr Ron
________________________________________________
W124 260E 1986 Rauchsilber-metalliclack (702)
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Rojo124
Platinum Boarder
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Berichten: 908
Geregistreerd: zo feb 06, 2011 7:59 pm
Woonplaats: Rotterdam
Type wagen: 260E
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rick » di feb 20, 2018 8:04 pm

Dank voor alle reactie, daar kan ik vast wat mee. Ik ga de garage in de buurt vragen voor wat testen te doen, hopelijk word het dan wat duidelijker.
Rick
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rick » di feb 20, 2018 8:07 pm

Dan zou kunnen Ron, ik woon op Goeree-Overflakkee maar ik rijd daar niet heel vaak.

Ik zal de papieren eens uitpluizen. Misschien staat er inderdaad wat bij.
Rick
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor John.M » di feb 20, 2018 9:28 pm

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John.M
Diamant Boarder
Diamant Boarder
 
Berichten: 1746
Geregistreerd: ma okt 08, 2012 1:29 pm
Woonplaats: Prov. Utrecht
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 250D
Bouwjaar: 1986
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee
Opmerkingen / andere wagens.:


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rick » zo feb 25, 2018 7:59 pm

Ik heb helaas nog geen tijd gehad om langs de garage te gaan, maar heb ondertussen de papieren nader bekeken.

Er is nergens iets van een gasinstallatie te vinden.
De km stand lijkt mij te kloppen, ik heb een fahrzeugbrief uit 1986gericht aan de firma Hans Sixt op naam van dhr franz arnold. Daarnaast heb ik verschillende facturen uit tussenliggende jaren, als laatste een brief uit 2007 van een garage in munchen gericht aan dezelfde meneer, met daarop een km stand van 132907.

Daarna stopt het en gaat het over in groene kaarten en keuringsrapporten uit nederland v.a. 2009.
Heeft sinds 2013 bij de garage in ons dorp gestaan tot afgelopen jaar.
Rick
 


Re: Erg snel vuile bougies 230E

Berichtdoor Rick » zo apr 29, 2018 3:03 pm

Ondertussen is de auto weer gemaakt.
Tijdens het wisselen van de bougies was 1 bougie groen... de koelvloeistof ging de laatste tijd ook erg hard.
Er zit nu een nieuwe koppakking tussen en de klepseals zijn vervangen. Hij rijd weer stukken beter.

Ik ben benieuwd wat het olieverbruik en de bougies nu gaan doen. Gaan vast wat langer mee.
Rick
 


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