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slecht lopende motor. : Techniek

W124Club.nl

Alles over de Mercedes W124

Het is nu za apr 27, 2024 2:18 pm

slecht lopende motor.

Alle techniek (mechanisch, elektronisch) zaken horen hier thuis.

slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » di jan 16, 2024 1:20 am

Dag allemaal,

onlangs ben ik begonnen met een project. Het gaat om een W124 M103 300CE uit 1988 met een ke-jetronic.

bij aanschaf liep motor niet stiationair maar wel met aardig wat gas geven.
compressie test gedaan alle 6 cilinders zaten tussen de 10.3 en 11.7 bar.
daarna heb ik de motor uit elkaar gehaald en het volgende gedaan:

cilinderkop gevlakt.
kleppen opnieuw ingeschuurd.
nieuwe klepseals.
nieuwe cilinderkoppakking.
nieuwe benzinepompen (niet orgineel 2 x 5 bar brandstofpompen 52 mm diameter)
nieuwe brandstoffilter.
andere spinnenkop.

nu moet de auto 2x gestart worden om hem aan de praat te krijgen met een beetje gas geven.
maar als hij eenmaal aan is loopt hij de eerste minuut als een zonnetje en daarna begint hij te pendelen.

brandstofdruk voor de spinnenkop is 5.6 bar.
brandstofdruk op de koude start injector is 5.1 bar.
druksverschil ingesteld op 0.4 bar met de EHA, dus de druk is dan 4.7 bar.

wie kan mij helpen om deze mooie wagen weer volledig mooi te laten draaien?

en heeft de ke-jetronic altijd een lambda sensor nodig? ik kan op mijn auto 300CE uit 1988 geen lambda sensor vinden..

alvast bedankt voor het meedenken.

groet Ronald
Ronaldcoupe
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Berichten: 15
Geregistreerd: ma jan 15, 2024 3:51 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE
Bouwjaar: 1988
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » di jan 16, 2024 10:45 am

Bedankt voor je antwoord RD500sec.

Ok ja ik zal me direct even gaan voorstellen. Bedankt :handgestures-thumbupright:
Ronaldcoupe
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Berichten: 15
Geregistreerd: ma jan 15, 2024 3:51 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE
Bouwjaar: 1988
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » di jan 16, 2024 11:55 am

BenzMenz
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 23
Geregistreerd: za maart 02, 2013 1:00 am
Type wagen: 300E
Bouwjaar: 1985
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » di jan 16, 2024 6:15 pm

Zo te lezen bedoelen we wel hetzelfde, het is alleen wat ingewikkeld en heb het uitgezocht.
Vanaf 9-'85 was een Abgasreinigunganlage met geregelde 3 weg katalysator idd optie (620).
https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com ... l?oid=5272
Vanaf 9-'86 was het standaard af fabriek maar tot de Mopf1, 9-'89, kon je optiecode 620 kiezen,
maar werkte net andersom: je kreeg geld terug/'korting' als je geen kat wilde.
Bijlagen
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20240116_173905.jpg
20240116_173905.jpg (6.43 MiB) 768 keer bekeken
BenzMenz
Junior Boarder
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Berichten: 23
Geregistreerd: za maart 02, 2013 1:00 am
Type wagen: 300E
Bouwjaar: 1985
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » di jan 16, 2024 8:30 pm

Ronaldcoupe
Fresh Boarder
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Berichten: 15
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Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE
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Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » di jan 16, 2024 8:56 pm

Bijlagen
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stekker.jpeg
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last vin 2.jpeg
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Ronaldcoupe
Fresh Boarder
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Type wagen: 300CE
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Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » di jan 16, 2024 10:03 pm

De spec. bij 0 graden is 5,9 KOhm, bij 80 graden 0,325 KOhm.
Lijkt dus wel goed te zijn, een graad meer of minder is al gauw een paar 100 Ohm.
BenzMenz
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » wo jan 17, 2024 9:23 am

temperatuursensor lijkt goed maar voor de zekerheid samen met de overspanningsrelais een nieuwe besteld, nog ff afwachten dus.

luchtmassameter door gemeten en deze is ook goed.

injectoren heb ik alleen bekeken maar nog niet getest of iets dergelijks.

verder wat mij opvalt is dat ik voor de brandstofverdeler 5.6 bar meet en achter de brandstofverdeler een druk van 5.1 bar. wat ik gelezen heb hoort deze drukken hetzelfde te zijn, heeft iemand daar ervaring mee?
dan komt de drukverschil van de EHA erbij (0.4) dan gaat er een druk van 4.7 naar de injectoren en deze hoort boven de 5 bar te zijn? ik zal nog weer even zoeken of ik ergens deze informatie kan vinden.

met vriendelijke groet Ronald
Ronaldcoupe
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » wo jan 17, 2024 3:02 pm

BenzMenz
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » wo jan 17, 2024 3:23 pm

Imho denk ik dat het verwijderen van de Kat/lambdasonde de oorzaak van je probleem is.
In de ECU begint na een bepaalde tijd of temperatuur de lambdaregeling te werken.
Dat veroorzaakt het pendelen, hetzelfde effect als met een kapotte lambdasonde.
Een nieuwe voorpijp met Kat is/was duur, voor velen reden om zonder verder te rijden.

Nu wel de goede link:
https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com ... l?oid=4560[/quote]



Maar als ik mijn chassisnummer invul op lastvin.com is hij geleverd zonder katalysator.
Ronaldcoupe
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » wo jan 17, 2024 7:50 pm

Bijlagen
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20240117_184820.jpg
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BenzMenz
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » do jan 18, 2024 12:34 am

@Ronald
Je zou nog kunnen kijken welke motorcomputer in de auto zit, is deze voor een motor met of zonder kat?
Maak ook de computer open en kijk of er geen gebroken solderingen in zitten, of de printbanen heel zijn, repareer zo nodig.
Heb je slangen van carter ventilatie, stationaire lucht vervangen?
Is de onderkant van de luchtweger nog heel, zonder scheuren?
Is de o-ring tussen brandstofverdeler en luchtweger nog in goede staat?
Heb je de injectorseals vernieuwd, de rubbers die om de injectoren zitten en in de kop steken.?
M.a.w. heb je geen vacuüm lekken?[/quote]

Bedankt voor de heldere informatie.

Ik zal de motorcomputer gaan bekijken.
Voor de rest alle slangen injectorseals zijn nog allemaal puntgaaf.
De onderkant van de luchtweger zit wel een scheurtje in waar de slang op aangesloten wordt voor stationair lucht.
Deze heb ik eerst dichtgekit en ben nog op zoek naar een nieuwe onderkant.
Ik ben nog even aan het googelen geweest en ik kwam op deze site uit
https://www.mercedesforum.nl/forum/view ... 0&start=30
Daar staat dat de 300CE een Benzinedruk van 6,5 bar moet hebben. Daar zit ik nogal een stukje van af.
Als de accumulator naast de benzinepompen stuk is zou dat een oorzaak kunnen zijn van drukverlaging?
Ronaldcoupe
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » do jan 18, 2024 12:44 am

Ronaldcoupe
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » do jan 18, 2024 11:55 am

Vandaag de auto even gestart en de toerental ongeveer op 2000rpm gehouden zodat de motor blijft draaien.
Echt een mooie tijd blijft uitstekend draaien en nergens last van. Maar op een bepaald willekeurig moment is er toch iets electronisch wat ingrijpt en dan begint ie ook bij dit toerental te pendelen. Als ik dan uitstap en stationair laat draaien dan zie je de voltages van de stationair klep ook mee pendelen. Wat ook weer op iets electronisch wijst. Ik heb even een foto gemaakt van de Ecu die voeg ik hier toe. Kan je aan de nummer zien of dit een ecu is met katalysator?
Ik ga de ecu nu open maken en controleren op losse solderingen.
Bijlagen
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Ronaldcoupe
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Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » do jan 18, 2024 12:33 pm

Dit zijn denk ik verdachte plekjes op de printplaat?
Bijlagen
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IMG_8919.jpeg
IMG_8919.jpeg (1.72 MiB) 768 keer bekeken
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IMG_8920.jpeg
IMG_8920.jpeg (1.63 MiB) 768 keer bekeken
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IMG_8921.jpeg
IMG_8921.jpeg (2.17 MiB) 768 keer bekeken
Ronaldcoupe
Fresh Boarder
Fresh Boarder
 
Berichten: 15
Geregistreerd: ma jan 15, 2024 3:51 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE
Bouwjaar: 1988
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » do jan 18, 2024 4:07 pm

Voor de ECU zou je in het EPC kunnen (laten) kijken op chassisnummer.

De onderkant van de luchtweger kun je bij autodoc vinden, vaico nummer
V30-0698
De eerder genoemde seals en slangen horen soepel te zijn om goed af te dichten, als ze hard zijn geworden (maar er wel goed uitzien) is het beter om ze te vervangen.[/quote]

Bedankt dan ga ik even op AUTODOC kijken om alles weer zo fris en goede conditie te krijgen.
Ronaldcoupe
Fresh Boarder
Fresh Boarder
 
Berichten: 15
Geregistreerd: ma jan 15, 2024 3:51 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE
Bouwjaar: 1988
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » vr jan 19, 2024 6:15 pm

Bijlagen
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10 - kopie.jpg
10 - kopie.jpg (3.54 MiB) 729 keer bekeken
BenzMenz
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 23
Geregistreerd: za maart 02, 2013 1:00 am
Type wagen: 300E
Bouwjaar: 1985
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor Ronaldcoupe » za jan 20, 2024 3:13 pm

Bijlagen
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IMG_8926.jpeg
IMG_8926.jpeg (1.9 MiB) 700 keer bekeken
Ronaldcoupe
Fresh Boarder
Fresh Boarder
 
Berichten: 15
Geregistreerd: ma jan 15, 2024 3:51 pm
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 300CE
Bouwjaar: 1988
Automaat: Ja
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » zo jan 21, 2024 8:00 pm

Nog 1 poging....

https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com ... l?oid=5258

In de 10e alinea lees je precies hoe en wat en let ook op de laatste regel die ik vertaald heb:
"Rückrüstfahrzeuge" waren tot augustus 1989 nog op aanvraag verkrijgbaar met overeenkomstige korting"
Dat had o.a. te maken met de beschikbaarheid van loodvrije benzine in de EU toendertijd.
Mensen gingen o.a. met hun auto op reis en in sommige landen was loodvrij toen niet te krijgen.
Die benzine is midden 80er jaren gekomen en valt nog genoeg over te vinden op het www.
Je moet je met dit soort discussies kunnen verplaatsen in de tijd, het is bijna 40 jaar geleden...

Als een optie op een bepaald moment Serie/Grundausstatung wordt, vervalt de optiecode op de optielijst.
Net als bij ABS, optie 470 tot augustus 1988, daarna Serie/Grundausstattung en niet meer op de optielijst.
In dit geval was optiecode 620 van 9-85 tot 9-86 met kat. En vanaf 9-86 zonder kat (voor een W124).
Ik snap dat dat erg verwarrend overkomt maar een '88er met M103 is zeker geen grensgeval.

Van die Rückrüstfahrzeuge was sprake van 9-86 tot 8-89 en reden dus zonder kat de fabriek uit.
Op de optielijst stond dan code 620 'ohne kat'. De klant kreeg korting, hoeveel kan je op de geplaatste foto zien.
Jouw auto heeft optie 620 niet in de lijst staan en was dus geen Rückrüstfahrzeug maar eentje mét kat.
Een 2e, 3e of weet ik veel welke eigenaar heeft besloten, om wat voor reden ook, zonder kat verder te willen.
MB had rückrüstpakketten voor auto's met 3-weg kat, je kon het bij MB laten doen of zelf doen.
In dat pakket zitten o.a. die twee stekkers en ook de sticker zoals op de foto, dat zegt dus ook niks.
In jouw geval is dat vermoedelijk zelf gedaan, als ik lees hoe de draden bevestigd waren, een rommelpotje.

Ik heb geprobeerd maximaal met aanwijzingen en bewijzen te komen, die mis ik helaas bij anderen.
Je schreef dat jouw ECU voor zonder kat is, waar stond dat? Ik vond er nl drie keer eentje, via google, "met kat".
Je geeft, en neemt, aan dat de benzinedruk 6,5 Bar moet zijn omdat dat op een forum staat.
Ik heb het voor je uitgezocht: bij koude en warme motor 5,3 - 5,5 Bar....(hoef je ook niet geloven ;) )
Vroeger nam ik alles klakkeloos aan van 'kenners' en daarom een paar keer, o.a. financieel, goed op m'n bek gegaan.
Daarom neem ik niets meer aan van anderen en zoek het zelf tot op den bodem uit.
BenzMenz
Junior Boarder
Junior Boarder
 
Berichten: 23
Geregistreerd: za maart 02, 2013 1:00 am
Type wagen: 300E
Bouwjaar: 1985
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: slecht lopende motor.

Berichtdoor BenzMenz » di jan 23, 2024 11:59 am

Mijn verhaal van gisteren heb ik weer verwijderd: nieuwe inzichten.

Mijn informatie over opties haal ik van de site http://www.123-hannover.de.
Daarop kan je o.a. vinden vanaf wanneer een optie verkrijgbaar was of standaard was/werd.
De door MB uitgegeven prijslijsten voor auto's en opties vanaf 12-84 staan daar allemaal op.
Maar die site is eigenlijk een Neupreisrechner waarmee je de nieuwprijs van je auto kan berekenen.
Duitsers kregen een korting als ze na 1-9-86 kozen voor zonder kat.
Als de TS die lijst dus gaat aanvinken moet hij 620 aankruisen: zonder kat - 1070/1333 DM.
Het is dus idd geen optie maar een manier om die korting in de prijsberekening te verwerken.
Die korting was geldig tot 8-89 en daarna zie je optie 620, daar, ook niet meer in de prijslijsten.

Op mijn PC heb ik een aantal prijslijsten gevonden (nog bedankt Nan!) van ongeveer 1990.
(als je een PDF aanklikt, worden ze blijkbaar tegenwoordig ook automatisch opgeslagen...)
Daar staat achter opties een S, een open bolletje, en een zwart bolletje.
Achter o.a. een 300CE staat een open bolletje en, na even zoeken, bleek dat "extra zonder meerprijs".
Het lijkt er dus op dat een kat na 9-89 niet S standaard was maar een extra zonder meerprijs.
En daarom zal optie 620 op jouw 91er optielijst én ook op de lijst van een 90er van mij staan.

Wat een gedoe maar we zijn eruit gekomen!
Bijlagen
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[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
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BenzMenz
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Junior Boarder
 
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